SonicStage horrors mar great hardware

Note added 03-09-2007: See the update at the end of this post for news about Sony dropping SonicStage for new Walkman models.

17 years ago my father gave me a Sony Walkman for my birthday. It was a WM-F202 recording Walkman. Although a little beaten up its still going strong, a great compliment to the build quality as its had a lot of use. Earlier this year he gave me a Sony NetMD MiniDisc (MZ-NF810) for my birthday. Its a great piece of hardware; nicely engineered and a worthy successor to the old Walkman.

You can get up to 5 hours music on a MiniDisc and although it can't hold a zillion songs like an iPod I think in some ways its better:
~ It uses an easy to change rechargeable or normal AA battery...
~ ...So no need to take a charger when travelling.
~ It has long play time 40 hours + on one AA battery
~ It has an am/fm radio tuner built in.
~ It can record from a digital input or microphone, which is a real bonus.

The disc capacity limitation is eliminated in the latest MiniDisc players as the new Hi-MD Walkmans have 1gb disc storing up to 45 hours of music. That removes one limitation but there is another possible problem: SonicStage - the software Sony supply to manage music.

Sonic Stage 1.5 came with my player and it installed and worked OK. Occasionally a CD transfer would fail but usually a second attempt would work. An email arrived recommending an upgrade to SonicStage 2. I attempted this and although the install seemed to go OK (the final dialog said it was successful) the upgrade was a total failure.

It corrupted the existing track database so they couldn't be used. It failed to work with both my CD and DVD drives and I had constant fatal errors. After checking the net I've found I wasn't alone and the MiniDisc forums & newsgroups have many complaints about SonicStage.

In the end I removed SonicStage 2, manually deleted all the "Sony folders" I could find, trashed the corrupt database (all off Cd's I own anyway), and manually removed Windows Registry entries for "Sony". I then reinstalled SonicStage 1.5 but it didn't work as disc's still couldn't be read from either the CD or DVD drives in my PC.

As a last resort I upgraded the semi functioning SonicStage 1.5 to the current release: SonicStage 2.1. Thankfully this works so I'm back in business but having to hack registry entries and manually remove software folders is not something you should have to face to upgrade versions. From what I have read SonicStage had poor removal/install as a clean install seems to work fine.

As all their "net portables" (MiniDisc, Network Walkman etc) use SonicStage its vital Sony make their software as good as the hardware because that is great. It would be a pity to turn off customers with poor quality software. I like my player and the MiniDisc format but will be very nervous when the next software "upgrade" arrives.

UPDATE 03-09-2007: Sony have, finally, given up with SonicStage for new Walkman products:

"Available in six vibrant colours, the new S610F-series Walkman supports the open audio formats of MP3, non-secure AAC, security-enhanced WMA and the secure format of WMA. To help manage digital music libraries, the new Walkman model comes with Microsoft Windows Media Player 11. Alternatively, consumers can simply select music, video or photo files from a computer then drag and drop them into their corresponding folders in their new S610F-series Walkman."

For more detail see the full press release a Sony New Zealand

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
POSTSCRIPT: These links may help with SonicStage problems:

SonicStage 2.x FAQ Page

SONY ANNOUNCMENT:October 21, 2004 Updated: October 23, 2004
It has been confirmed that some of Sony's application software(*) for managing music files on the PC may not work as originally intended, if a user installs Microsoft Windows Security Update Program MS04-032 (KB840987) on his/her PC.
For details see: http://www.openmg.com/support/en/840987/index.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Last resort rebuild instructions sourced from:
http://www.minidisct.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24052

WARNING:
If you use a Sony VAIO with preinstalled software provided by Sony or use other software developed by Sony, do not follow the procedure below.
In all cases cefore you try this consider:
     - Are you prepared to loose the existing database?
     - Are you comfortable editing the windows registry?

These instructions are provided with no responsibility or liability for any damage or data loss caused if applied to your system. All I can say is they worked for me.

1. Uninstall all OpenMG related software via the Add/Remove Programs control panel and reboot as necessary. This includes, but is not limited to, OpenMG 2.2, related 'Limited Patches' and the 'Secure Module', SonicStage 1.x/2.x, Simple Burner 1.x/2.x, and software by RealNetworks. Make sure that you unplug your unit before doing so.

2. If you run Windows XP/Windows 2000 Professional, proceed to delete the following directories:
"\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Sony Corporation"
"\Program Files\Common Files\Sony Shared"
"\Program Files\Sony".

3. Start -> Run -> regedit. The 'Registry Editor' utility should appear on your screen. Delete the references to OpenMG located under 'HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Sony Corporation' and 'HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Sony Corporation' by right-clicking on the entries.

4. Disabling any anti-virus software that is running in the background to free up some resources [if necessary]. Update your installation of Windows at Microsoft Windows Update (windowsupdate.microsoft.com). For Windows 2000 Professional users, you are recommended to upgrade to Service Pack 3 or later.

Make sure that your unit is disconnected and install the latest build of SonicStage 2.x from Sony Connect/Sony Connect Europe. The drivers for Sony units will automaticaly be installed. (If you use a Panasonic or Sharp Hi-MD/NetMD unit, install your drivers before you install the actual software!) Restart if prompted to do so; if not, it is still recommended that you do so. Plug in your unit, and start SonicStage 2.x.

Comments

[Registry Cleaner Reviews]

Thanks your post and comments from users I was able to fix the problems in my player.

[Robin Capper]

Ken, I'm not anti-digital but agree many seem to trade quality for convenience without much thought for what they are losing. I'm not a fan of MP3 players for that reason esp. as many seem to crunch files with max compression to "fit more in".

It's like the people who buy a mega-pixel camera, because they are told more pixels means more quality, then run at minimum resolution rather than buy more memory!!!

[Ken]

It is ironic that you show the old Sony WM-F202 with glowing comments, then express frustration with something so much newer.

I have a number of old tape recorders (reel to reel, professional cassette, and recording walkman). The build quality is not only better, as you observe, but so is the sound. The microphone preamplifiers on my TC-D5M Sony cassette better than anything I have yet to find in modern portable field recorders. The preamplifiers in my reel to reel (1970s) can be run wide open, maximum gain, with almost no noise.

So, my question is, why do we support equipment that seems to get worse, not better, at least in terms of sound quality.

[Ken]

It is ironic that you show the old Sony WM-F202 with glowing comments, then express frustration with something so much newer.

I have a number of old tape recorders (reel to reel, professional cassette, and recording walkman). The build quality is not only better, as you observe, but so is the sound. The microphone preamplifiers on my TC-D5M Sony cassette better than anything I have yet to find in modern portable field recorders. The preamplifiers in my reel to reel (1970s) can be run wide open, maximum gain, with almost no noise.

So, my question is, why do we support equipment that seems to get worse, not better, at least in terms of sound quality.

[Robin Capper]

New Walkman will use standard formats, windows media player and drag 'n drop. SonicStage is finally history!

[Robin Capper]

Hi Nathan, will be in touch via email

[Nathan Langley]

Hi just stumbled into this forum.... can anyone help????? downloaded audio files to sonic stage on my pc. all went fine no problems . However... on play back and on my new mp3 player all tracks skip like the old vinyl records did of yester year wheever you accidently knocked the turntable.... However all disc's are ok free from dustdirt scracthes etc and have downloaded towindows media no problems at all only reason i downloaded them again was cos ... you guessed it windows media notm supported by sonic stage . PLease hlp

[Amol Palikondawar]

Hi,
The MP3 player and the sonicstage software are working perfectly now. What i did is i imported MP3 songs from original cd instead of importing downloaded MP3 songs.

[Robin Capper]

Amol, It's sad that all this time later, I wrote this about a Minidisc, their great hardware is still hamstrung by crap software & DRM madness.

I mostly listen to podcasts at a PC so my current Hi-tech solution to audio is a USB drive & media player. Still, looking at the Microsoft Zune reports it appears Sony aren't alone in creating crap software to go with their audio hardware.

[Amol Palikondawar]

Hi,
I have just bought Sony NW-E000 series MP3 player ( Walkman). I have windows XP SP2 installed on my machine. The sonic stage software version is 3.2 which came with player. I have installed that. No problem in installing. But whenever i try to import mp3 files it gives error "Can not import mp3 files as these format is not supported". I am truly irritated with this since i spent big amount of money in buying the mp3 player.Anyone have any idea please tell me.
I will never buy sony's products in future.

[Robin Capper]

Yeah, time has moved on, Minidisc is dead as a format (but mine's still going fine), and memory/hard drive players are are the way to go but it seems Sony has still not realised.
No matter how good the hardware with rubbish software people won't buy, not a second time anyway.

[Dermot]

I have just come across this web site and may be a bit late with my comments but I do hope someone from Sony reads this.

Last year I bought a NW-HD3 and it reproduces great music. It is better than my previous MP3 and I prefer it to the iPOD. Now, and to no one's surprise I'm sure, the software, both on the device and on the PC, is abysmal. Here are just a selection of unacceptable characteristics:

- When I load an MP3 from my PC into the Sonic Stage library it takes forever. I look at the CPU statistics etc. and the PC seems to be doing nothing. It can take your evening just doing that and that's *before* I put the music on the MP3 player!

- There is no proper search function

- There is a special USB interface device (my previous MP3 player had a straightforward USB cable interface). This means I have to take it from home to work or buy an extra one if I want to charge my battery or add music

The database of names is amateurish, for example, it cuts off names; the names in the Library do not correspond with the names on the device; there is no way to view by sorted order on the device (even when connected to the PC); it faithfully reproduces No Name on the playing track if it is not filled in (instead of supressing it)

There are many other irritations. What amazes me is that Sony, a company whose products I have used for years, are responsible for this awful application.

Thank you for listening.

Dermot

[tak]

I upgraded from 2.3 to 3.3 and had the same problems with licences not being found.

All the OpenMG based music could not be played! Mp3s were fine. I spoke with sony support and they said it was the operating system! What a dozey b1tch.

Sony staff their call centres with fuc*ing stupid monkeys.

[Joe]

Sure, just quit using DRMed software and hardware. :/ Law of economics - if they are stopped before the practice becomes mandatory, then they can't compete with the more popular and less locked-down formats. If the looser standards are not sold then you will have no choice. Also, if it was me, and the NetMD didn't support sending "foreign" MP3's to it then I'd ask for my money back or at least some kind of software fix. This is the one major reason I held off on Windows XP and will not get an iPod or any of the other locked music players.

What I really want and is unlikely to be made by Sony for obvious reasons, is a DVD-ROM with the ability to play MP3/OGG/FLAC/WAV/MPEG and so on formats with a single line text output to choose folders/tracks. If I had one for my car then I could leave a single DVD for just me in a CD holder! Imagine having one of those 10-CD holders with everyone's picks for when they're driving! DJ's would love something like that if it supported USB/Firewire.

[nigel]

i just bought a sony minidisc off a buddy but he doesn't have the software im wondering which would be the best way to go to get it and what version. if any of you have a working version of sonicstage 1.5 could you email me and give me some help with this
input greatly apreciated.
iron_man2112@hotmail.com

[Stuart Reeve]

Hi, Wondering if you could help me. Am running Windows XP with SP 2 so dont need the update but am having a problem. All of a sudden my HD1 stopped accepting files. SonicStage says it cannot convert MP3 files because it does not accept these kind of files.

Now this was working fine about 3 weeks ago, seems now to have just died on me...any ideas?

[Robin Capper]

Gavin, I agree. I read something today about Sony trying to fight iPod (too little too late?) and they said they need to make the hardware more user friendly. I've had no problems with their hardware (Audio or video) but the software is far from user friendly. I'm still reluctant to trust my music purchases to any proprietary DRM system so still buy all on CD. ATARI is fine for portable use but wouldn't want to have source material in either ATRAC or MP3 and dependent on DRM management.

[Gavin]

I think the compression and sound quality from Atrac3 plus are excellent (never bothered to upgrade, thank God) - but I'm really hacked off with their uptight copyright stance - restoring software from backup loses copyright information it created somewhere first time round, meaning that although I've put over a thousand tracks FROM MY OWN CDs onto my computer's D drive, I can't access them at all from sonicstage restored onto C drive. Pretty poor application development, unless they really intended to lose customers of course. And they've just lost me.

[Robin Capper]

Lloyd, Try Sony support first.

The only way I, and several others who have emailed me, have recovered from this required complete removal and rebuild of the database with loss of all old data. Can email details if you have no luck with Sony support.

[Lloyd]

Have just bought the Sony NW-HD1 and I have Windows XP Service Pack 1, I did have OpenJukebox 2.2 installed until I installed Sonicstage 2.1 which then removed Jukebox for me. The dam thing keeps coming up with the error that it can't find the database its corrupt blah blah blah, grrrr. How do I go about creating a new databse? Where do I find the old database.

[Sterling]

I am running xp sp2 and I can not get SonicStage to work at all. Keeps complaining about a corrupt database. Would you like to "overwrite" it. I answer "yes" and the "applilcation" crashes. I can not get a "new" base to be created. I did have 1.5 and that worked just fine. Any sugguestions?

[Robin Capper]

If running XP try service pack 2 and check out the FAQ link (above). Other than that i had to clean out Sonic and reinstall from scratch. This is a drastic last resort and recommend you try all Sony's suggestions first

[MajicM]

SonicStage 2.1 for me won't even load.

It initialises and the GUI comes up but that is as far as it gets. It just crashes out without even an error.

Now I can't even go back to 1.5 as it fails to recognise any of my MP3's as "supported files" despite me knowing I have had them on Minidisc before!

Sony Software is TOTALLY lame.

[Simon]

I am sending this from my new Sony VGN-T17GP notepad, it's superb but does'nt talk to my Sony NW HD1 ["ATRAC HDD not supported by this version of Sonic Stage"], that was the preloaded 2.1, since I have upgraded to 2.2 still the same and it won't talk to my NW 77 either.

How can Sony get away with such appalling software and software upgrades, they are so uptight about copying rights they have forgotten about the basic rights of their customers to have a product that is fit for purpose.

I don't have time to fix Sony's problems but I will make sure they fix mine!

I recommend a letter to their president demanding an apology for such poor products, personally I intend to visit their HQ in Tokyo, it's not far I live close by.

[Robin Capper]

SONY ANNOUNCMENT:
It has been confirmed that some of Sony's application software(*) for managing music files on the PC may not work as originally intended, if a user installs Microsoft Windows Security Update Program MS04-032 (KB840987) on his/her PC
For details see: http://www.openmg.com/support/en/840987/index.html